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besides acting nobly in other ways. Thus, while education brings also victory, victory sometimes brings lack of education for men have often grown more insolent because of victory in war, and through their insolence they have become filled with countless other vices; and whereas education has never yet proved to be “Cadmeian,”i.e. involving more loss than gain—a proverbial expression, possibly derived from the fate of the “Sparti” (sprung from the dragon's teeth sown by Cadmus, founder of Thebes) who slew one another: cp. “Pyrrhic” victory. the victories which men win in war often have been, and will be, “Cadmeian.”CliniasYou are implying, my friend, as it seems to us, that the con
AthenianThe fourth right is that slaves ought to be ruled, and masters ought to rule.CliniasUndoubtedly.AthenianAnd the fifth is, I imagine, that the stronger should rule and the weaker be ruled.CliniasA truly compulsory form of rule!AthenianYes, and one that is very prevalent among all kinds of creatures, being “according to nature,” as Pindar of Thebes once said.Cp. Plat. Gorg. 484b *PI/NDAROS . . . LE/GEI O(/TI *NO/MOS . . .
A)/GEI DIKAIW=N TO\ BIAIO/TATON U(PERTA/TA| XEPI/. The most important right is, it would seem, the sixth, which ordains that the man without understanding should follow, and the wise man lead and rule. Neverthele
they contradict us absolutely. If we were to follow in nature's steps and enact that law which held good before the days of Laius,King of Thebes, father of Oedipus. declaring that it is right to refrain from indulging in the same kind of intercourse with men and boysCp. Plat. Laws 636b., Plat. Sym.181-2. as with women, and adducing as evidence thereof the nature of wild beasts, and pointing out how male does not touch male for this purpose, since it is unnatural,—in all this we would probably be using an argument neither convincing nor in any way consonant with your States. Moreover, that object which, as we affirm, the lawgiver ought always to have in vie