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[599d] and the administration of cities and the education of men, it surely is fair to question him and ask, ‘Friend Homer, if you are not at the third remove from truth and reality in human excellence, being merely that creator of phantoms whom we defined as the imitator, but if you are even in the second place and were capable of knowing what pursuits make men better or worse in private or public life, tell us what city was better governed owing to you,1 even as Lacedaemon was because of Lycurgus,2 and many other cities

1 Cf. Gorg. 515 B, Laches 186 B.

2 Cf. Laws 630 D, 632 D, 858 E, Symp. 209 D, Phaedr. 258 B, Minos 318 C, Herod. i. 65-66, Xen.Rep. Lac. 1. 2 and passim,Plutarch, Life of Lycurgus.

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