[292a]
whether the multitude rule those who have property by violence or with their willing consent, and whether the laws are carefully observed or not, no one ever habitually changes the name.Younger Socrates
True.Stranger
Now then, do we believe that any of these forms of government which are defined by the distinctions between the one, the few, and the many, or wealth and poverty, or violence and willingness, or written constitution and absence of laws, is a right one?Younger Socrates
I donÕt see why not. [292b] Stranger
Look a bit more closely along the line I am going to point out.Younger Socrates
What is it?Stranger
Shall we abide by what we said in the beginning, or dissent from it?Younger Socrates
To what do you refer?Stranger
We said, I believe, that royal power was one of the sciences.Younger Socrates
Yes.Stranger
And not only a science, but we selected it from the rest as a science of judgement and command.Younger Socrates
Yes.Stranger
And from the science of command we distinguished one part which rules inanimate works, [292c] and one which rules living beings; and so we have gone on dividing in this manner to the present moment, never forgetting that it is a science, but as yet unable to state with sufficient accuracy what science it is.Younger Socrates
You are right.Stranger
Then is this our understanding, that the distinction between forms of government ought not to be found in the words few or many, or voluntary or unwilling, or wealth or poverty, but some science must be the distinguishing feature, if we are to be consistent with our previous statement? [292d] Younger Socrates
Yes, indeed; it cannot be otherwise.Stranger
Necessarily, then, our present duty is to inquire in which, if any, of these forms of government is engendered the science of ruling men, which is about the greatest of sciences and the most difficult to acquire. We must discover that in order to see what men are to be distinguished from the wise king—men, I mean, who pretend to be, and make many believe that they are, statesmen, but are really not such at all.Younger Socrates
Yes, we must do this; that is implied in what was said before. [292e] Stranger
Does it seem at all possible that a multitude in a state could acquire this science?Younger Socrates
By no means.Stranger
But in a state of one thousand men could perhaps a hundred or as many as fifty acquire it adequately?Younger Socrates
No, in that case this would be the easiest of all the arts; for we know that a city of a thousand men could never produce that number of finished draught-players in comparison with those in other Greek cities, still less so many kings. For the man who possesses the kingly science, whether he rule or not,
True.Stranger
Now then, do we believe that any of these forms of government which are defined by the distinctions between the one, the few, and the many, or wealth and poverty, or violence and willingness, or written constitution and absence of laws, is a right one?Younger Socrates
I donÕt see why not. [292b] Stranger
Look a bit more closely along the line I am going to point out.Younger Socrates
What is it?Stranger
Shall we abide by what we said in the beginning, or dissent from it?Younger Socrates
To what do you refer?Stranger
We said, I believe, that royal power was one of the sciences.Younger Socrates
Yes.Stranger
And not only a science, but we selected it from the rest as a science of judgement and command.Younger Socrates
Yes.Stranger
And from the science of command we distinguished one part which rules inanimate works, [292c] and one which rules living beings; and so we have gone on dividing in this manner to the present moment, never forgetting that it is a science, but as yet unable to state with sufficient accuracy what science it is.Younger Socrates
You are right.Stranger
Then is this our understanding, that the distinction between forms of government ought not to be found in the words few or many, or voluntary or unwilling, or wealth or poverty, but some science must be the distinguishing feature, if we are to be consistent with our previous statement? [292d] Younger Socrates
Yes, indeed; it cannot be otherwise.Stranger
Necessarily, then, our present duty is to inquire in which, if any, of these forms of government is engendered the science of ruling men, which is about the greatest of sciences and the most difficult to acquire. We must discover that in order to see what men are to be distinguished from the wise king—men, I mean, who pretend to be, and make many believe that they are, statesmen, but are really not such at all.Younger Socrates
Yes, we must do this; that is implied in what was said before. [292e] Stranger
Does it seem at all possible that a multitude in a state could acquire this science?Younger Socrates
By no means.Stranger
But in a state of one thousand men could perhaps a hundred or as many as fifty acquire it adequately?Younger Socrates
No, in that case this would be the easiest of all the arts; for we know that a city of a thousand men could never produce that number of finished draught-players in comparison with those in other Greek cities, still less so many kings. For the man who possesses the kingly science, whether he rule or not,
