[116a]
so you must call it good because of the good it produces.Alcibiades
I believe that is so.Socrates
And again, are they noble inasmuch as they are good, and base inasmuch as they are evil?Alcibiades
Yes.Socrates
Then in saying that the rescue of one's friends in battle is noble and yet evil, you mean just the same as if you called the rescue good, but evil.Alcibiades
I believe what you say is true, Socrates.Socrates
So nothing noble, in so far as it is noble, is evil, and nothing base, in so far as it is base, is good. [116b] Alcibiades
Apparently.Socrates
Now then, consider it again in this way: whoever does nobly, does well too, does he not?Alcibiades
Yes.Socrates
And are not those who do well happy?Alcibiades
Of course.Socrates
And they are happy because of the acquisition of good things?Alcibiades
Certainly.Socrates
And they acquire these by doing well and nobly?Alcibiades
Yes.Socrates
So doing well is good?Alcibiades
Of course.Socrates
And welfare is noble?Alcibiades
Yes. [116c] Socrates
Hence we have seen again that noble and good are the same thing.Alcibiades
Apparently.Socrates
Then whatever we find to be noble we shall find also to be good, by this argument at least.Alcibiades
We must.Socrates
Well then, are good things expedient or not?Alcibiades
Expedient.Socrates
And do you remember what our admissions were about just things?Alcibiades
I think we said that those who do just things must do noble things.Socrates
And that those who do noble things must do good things?Alcibiades
Yes. [116d] Socrates
And that good things are expedient?Alcibiades
Yes.Socrates
Hence just things, Alcibiades, are expedient.Alcibiades
So it seems.Socrates
Well now, are not you the speaker of all this, and I the questioner?Alcibiades
I seem to be, apparently.Socrates
So if anyone stands up to advise either the Athenians or the Peparethians,1 imagining that he understands what is just and unjust, and says that just things are sometimes evil, could you do other than laugh him to scorn, since you actually say yourself that [116e] just and expedient are the same?Alcibiades
But by Heaven, Socrates, I do not even know what I am saying, I feel altogether in such a strange state! For from moment to moment I change my view under your questioning.Socrates
And are you unaware, my friend, what this feeling is?Alcibiades
I am, quite.Socrates
Well, do you suppose that if someone should ask you whether you have two eyes or three, two hands or four, or anything else of that sort, you would answer differently from moment to moment, or always the same thing?
I believe that is so.Socrates
And again, are they noble inasmuch as they are good, and base inasmuch as they are evil?Alcibiades
Yes.Socrates
Then in saying that the rescue of one's friends in battle is noble and yet evil, you mean just the same as if you called the rescue good, but evil.Alcibiades
I believe what you say is true, Socrates.Socrates
So nothing noble, in so far as it is noble, is evil, and nothing base, in so far as it is base, is good. [116b] Alcibiades
Apparently.Socrates
Now then, consider it again in this way: whoever does nobly, does well too, does he not?Alcibiades
Yes.Socrates
And are not those who do well happy?Alcibiades
Of course.Socrates
And they are happy because of the acquisition of good things?Alcibiades
Certainly.Socrates
And they acquire these by doing well and nobly?Alcibiades
Yes.Socrates
So doing well is good?Alcibiades
Of course.Socrates
And welfare is noble?Alcibiades
Yes. [116c] Socrates
Hence we have seen again that noble and good are the same thing.Alcibiades
Apparently.Socrates
Then whatever we find to be noble we shall find also to be good, by this argument at least.Alcibiades
We must.Socrates
Well then, are good things expedient or not?Alcibiades
Expedient.Socrates
And do you remember what our admissions were about just things?Alcibiades
I think we said that those who do just things must do noble things.Socrates
And that those who do noble things must do good things?Alcibiades
Yes. [116d] Socrates
And that good things are expedient?Alcibiades
Yes.Socrates
Hence just things, Alcibiades, are expedient.Alcibiades
So it seems.Socrates
Well now, are not you the speaker of all this, and I the questioner?Alcibiades
I seem to be, apparently.Socrates
So if anyone stands up to advise either the Athenians or the Peparethians,1 imagining that he understands what is just and unjust, and says that just things are sometimes evil, could you do other than laugh him to scorn, since you actually say yourself that [116e] just and expedient are the same?Alcibiades
But by Heaven, Socrates, I do not even know what I am saying, I feel altogether in such a strange state! For from moment to moment I change my view under your questioning.Socrates
And are you unaware, my friend, what this feeling is?Alcibiades
I am, quite.Socrates
Well, do you suppose that if someone should ask you whether you have two eyes or three, two hands or four, or anything else of that sort, you would answer differently from moment to moment, or always the same thing?
