Plato, Euthydemus

When one tells it, he said.

Then if you tell it, you tell just that thing which you tell, of all that are, and nothing else whatever?

Of course, said Ctesippus.

Now the thing that you tell is a single one, distinct from all the others there are.

Certainly.

Then the person who tells that thing tells that which is?

Yes.

But yet, surely he who tells what is, and things that are, tells the truth: so that Dionysodorus, if he tells things that are, tells the truth and speaks no lie about you.

Yes, said Ctesippus; [284b] but he who speaks as he did, Euthydemus, does not say things that are.

Then Euthydemus asked him: And the things which are not, surely are not?

They are not.

Then nowhere can the things that are not be?

Nowhere.

Then is it possible for anyone whatever so to deal with these things that are not as to make them be when they are nowhere?

I think not, said Ctesippus.

Well now, when orators speak before the people, do they do nothing?

No, they do something, he replied.

Then if they do, [284c] they also make?

Yes.

Now, is speaking doing and making?

He agreed that it is.

No one, I suppose, speaks what is not—for thereby he would be making something; and you have agreed that one cannot so much as make what is not—so that, by your account, no one speaks what is false, while if Dionysodorus speaks, he speaks what is true and is.

Yes, in faith, Euthydemus, said Ctesippus; but somehow or other he speaks what is, only not as it is.¹

How do you mean, Ctesippus? said Dionysodorus. [284d] Are there persons who tell things as they are?

Why surely, he replied, there are gentlemen—people who speak the truth?

Well, he went on, good things are in good case, bad in bad, are they not?

He assented.

And you admit that gentlemen tell things as they are.

I do.

Then, Ctesippus, good people speak evil of evil things, if they speak of them as they are.

Yes, I can tell you, very much so, when for instance they speak of evil men; among whom, if you take my advice, [284e] you will beware of being included, that the good may not speak ill of you. For, I assure you, the good speak ill² of the evil.

And they speak greatly of the great, asked Euthydemus, and hotly of the hot?

Certainly, I presume, said Ctesippus: I know they speak frigidly of the frigid, and call their way of arguing frigid.

You are turning abusive, Ctesippus, said Dionysodorus, quite abusive!

Not I, on my soul, Dionysodorus, for I like you: I am only giving you a friendly hint, and endeavoring to persuade you never to say anything so tactless in my presence as