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And it is by the presence of bad things, you say, that the bad are bad? Or do you no longer say so?

I do say so.

Then whoever enjoys is good, and whoever is pained, bad?


You mean, those more so who feel these things more, and those less who feel less, and those about equally who feel about equally?


Now you say that the wise and the foolish, the cowardly and the brave, feel enjoyment and pain about equally, or the cowards even more?

I do.

Then just help me to reckon up the results we get from our admissions for you know they say: “That which seemeth well, Ôtis well twice and also thrice to tell,”1 and to examine too.

1 The saying—καὶ δὶς γὰρ δεῖ καλόν ἐστιν ἐνισπεῖν—was attributed by some to Empedocles.

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