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[514e] of an improvement in the bodily condition of anyone, stranger or citizen, man or woman,—by Heaven, Callicles, would it not in truth be ridiculous that men should descend to such folly that, before having plenty of private practice, sometimes with indifferent results, sometimes with success, and so getting adequate training in the art, they should, as the saying is, try to learn pottery by starting on a wine-jar,1 and start public practice themselves and invite others of their like to do so? Do you not think it would be mere folly to act thus?

I do.

1 That is, instead of a small pot involving little waste in case of failure.

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