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CHAPTER XXII

This and the next three chapters form a kind of interlude. In this chapter Socrates, protesting against Protagoras' long replies, remembers an engagement and is about to go, and Callias beseeches him to stay.

9. καὶ βραχυτέρας ποίει. Hirschig would reject the words, but they explain the metaphor in σύντεμνε: see on 314Aκυβεύῃς τε καὶ κινδυνεύῃς.

13. ὅσα ἐμοὶ δοκεῖ. Cf. Gorg. 461D τί δέ; οὐκ ἐξέσται μοι λέγειν ὁπόσα ἂν βούλωμαι;

17. καὶ αὖ βραχέα. Sauppe cites Gorg. 449C καὶ γὰρ αὖ καὶ τοῦτο ἕν ἐστιν ὧν φημί, μηδένα ἂν ἐν βπαχυτέποις ἐμοῦ τὰ αὐτὰ εἰρεῖν. Τούτου μὴν δεῖ, Γοπγία: καί μοι ἐρίδειξιν αὐτοῦ τούτου ροίησαι, τῆς βραχυλογίας, μακρολογίας δὲ εἰσαῦθις; cf. also Gorg. 461D and Phaedr. 267B.

22. ὡς ἀντιλέγωνοὕτω διελεγόμην. Asyndeton is frequent in such sentences: cf. Rep. II. 359B (cited by Heindorf) εἰ τοιόνδε ποιήσαιμεν τῇ διανοίᾳ, δόντες ἐξουσίανεἶτ᾽ ἐπακολουθήσαιμεν κτλ. See on 311E

24. ἐγένετο Πρωταγόρου ὄνομα. With ἐγένετο ὄνομα (for which Kroschel reads ἐλέγετο ὄνομα) cf. Apol. 20D τί ποτ᾽ ἔστιν τοῦτο ἐμοὶ πεποίηκε τό τε ὄνομα καὶ τὴν διαβολήν: γίγνεσθαι is the usual passive to ποιεῖν. With the sentence generally cf. Euthyphr. 4E-5A, where Euthyphro says οὐδὲν γὰρ ἄν μου ὄφελος εἴη, Σώκπατες, οὐδέ τῳ ἂν διαφέποι Εὐθύφπων τῶν ρολλῶν ἀνθπώρων, εἰ μὴ κτλ.: see note in loc. for more parallels.

25. οὐκ ἤρεσενκαὶοὐκ ἐθελήσοι. The combination of indicative and optative in the same sentence in indirect speech is fairly common: Goodwin, M.T. p. 261, § 670.

28. ἡγησάμενος. Heindorf conjectures ἡγησάμενος οὖν, but οὖν may be dispensed with after a short parenthesis.

36. τὰ μακρὰ ταῦτα ἀδύνατος. Meno, 94B ἴνα δὲ μὴ ὀλίγους οἴη̣ καὶ τοὺς φαυλοτάτους Ἀθηναίων ἀδυνάτους γεγονέναι τοῦτο τὸ πρᾶγμα; Rep. VI. 478A ἐφ᾽ ἑτέρῳ ἄρα ἕτερόν τι δυναμένη ἑκατέρα αὐτῶν πέφυκεν.

38. ἵνα συνουσία ἐγίγνετο. For this construction see note on Crito, 44D εἰ γὰρ ὤφελονοἷοί τ᾽ εἶναιἴνα οἷοί τ᾽ ἦσαν. A secondary tense of the indicative is found with ἴνα and ὅπως (without ἄν) in final clauses dependent on a wish which can no longer be fulfilled, or on the apodosis to an impossible protasis: Goodwin, M.T. p. 120, § 333. The idiom is frequent in Plato and sometimes corrupted by scribes, e.g. Meno, 89B ἡμεῖς ἂν παραλαβόντεςἐφυλάττομενἵνα μηδεὶς αὐτοὺς διέφθειρεν, ἀλλ᾽ ἐπειδὴ ἀφίκοιντο εἰς τὴν ἡλικίαν, χρήσιμοι γίγνοιντο ταῖς πόλεσιν—where perhaps we should read ἀφίκοντο and ἐγίγνοντο. See Cobet's Variae Lectiones, pp. 102, 359.

45. τρίβωνος. The ordinary clothing of an Athenian consisted of a χιτών, or shirt, with a ἱμάτιον or short mantle worn above it. The τρίβων was a short cloak of coarse material worn by the Spartans and sometimes by the Laconisers in other states to take the place of both χιτών and ἱμάτιον. It was the ordinary garment of Socrates (Symp. 219B), and was afterwards much affected by the more ascetic philosophers, such as the Cynics (Diog. Laert. VI. I. 13). Its use was supposed to be a mark of sturdy simplicity and austerity of manners.

48. οὐδ᾽ ἂν ἑνός. The two parts of οὐδείς are sometimes separated by ἄν or a preposition, often with the effect (as here) of increasing the emphasis by making οὐδέ = ne—quidem, cf. below 343Dοὐδὲ πρὸς ἔνα λόγον.

51. παῖ Ἱππονίκου: see on 328Dabove. With ἀεὶ μὲνἀτάρ Sauppe compares Rep. II. 367E καὶ ἐγὼ ἀκούσας ἀεὶ μὲν δὴ τὴν φύσιν τοῦ τε Γλαύκωνος καὶ τοῦ Ἁδειμάντου ἠγάμην, ἀτὰπ οὖν καὶ τότε πάνυ γε ἥσθην.

52. φιλοσοφίαν. The original meaning of the word φιλοσοφία was ‘love of knowledge for its own sake’, no particular kind of knowledge being specified. The verb φιλοσοφεῖν is first found in Hdt. I. 30 ὡς φιλοσοφέων γῆν πολλὴν θεωρίης εἵνεκεν ἐπελήλυθας. In the present passage (as in Thuc. II. 40 φιλοσοφοῦμεν ἄνευ μαλακίας) the word retains its original wider meaning, viz, ‘love of knowledge’ in general; but side by side with this in Plato it has the more restricted meaning of ‘Philosophy’, e.g. Rep. VI. 496A πάνσμικρον δή τι. . .λείπεται τῶν κατ᾽ ἀξίαν ὁμιλούντων φιλοσοφίᾳ. The wider meaning is also found in Aristotle, where he calls Theology the ‘Highest Study’ (πρώτη φιλοσοφία), and elsewhere.

55. Κρίσωνι. Criso of Himera, a famous σταδιοδρόμος, won three times at Olympia, viz. Olymp. 83, 84 and 85 (448, 444 and 440 B.C.). His chastity during his prime as an athlete is mentioned in Laws, VIII. 840A. δρομεῖ ἀκμάζοντι is rejected by some editors, but δρομεῖ should be taken with Ἱμεραίῳ and ἀκμάζοντι with ἕπεσθαι: ‘to keep up with Criso, the runner of Himera, when he was in his prime’—presumably at the assumed date of this dialogue he was past his ἀκμή.

56. δολιχοδρόμων: δολιχοδρόμοι εἰσὶν οἱ τὸν δόλιχον τρέχοντες, says the scholiast: see on 329A

ἡμεροδρόμων. Heindorf quotes Livy, XXXI. 24. 4 ‘Hemerodromos vocant Graeci ingens die uno cursu emetientes spatium.’ Such was Phidippides; see Hdt. VI. 105 ἡμεροδρόμην τε καὶ τοῦτο μελετῶντα.

57. διαθεῖν τε καὶ ἕπεσθαι. δια- in compounds frequently denotes competition: for διαθεῖν cf. Theaet. 148C εἶτα διαθέων τοῦ ἀκμάζοντος καὶ ταχίστου ἡττήθης. As the emphasis is on ἕπεσθαι (‘keep up with’), διαθεῖν τε καὶ ἕπεσθαι is equivalent to διαθέοντα ἕπεσθαι: cf. note on 317Cἐνδείξασθαι καὶ καλλωπίσασθαι, where καὶ καλλωπίσασθαι is (so to speak) enclitic as διαθεῖν τε καί is proclitic (cf. the English ‘Some—must be talked over by the hour before they could reach the humblest decision, which they only left the office to return again (ten minutes later) and rescind’).

61. συγκαθεῖναι: intransitive as in Rep. VIII. 563A οἱ δὲ γέροντες ξυγκαθιέντες τοῖς νέοις: so παρέχω for παρέχω ἐμαυτόν below, 348Aἕτοιμός εἰμί σοι παρέχειν ἀποκρινόμενος: cf. also ἐκεῖνοί τε ἀπέκρυψαν (sc. ἑαυτούς) Thuc. V. 65. 5. The omission of the reflexive pronoun is a well-recognised way of making transitive verbs into intransitive.

66. χωρίς. Soph. O.C. 808 χωρὶς τό τ᾽ εἰπεῖν πολλὰ καὶ τὰ καίρια. ‘In talibus locis δίχα, χωρίς etc. non, ut vulgo, seiunctionem et separationem, sed diversitatem et oppositionem significant’ (Kroschel). The usage is frequent in Plato. δημηγορεῖν is contionari—platform oratory.

68. ὁρᾷς. Almost like our colloquial ‘don't you know’ (when used parenthetically and without interrogative force): the ἀλλά belongs in strict logic to δίκαια δοκεῖ λέγειν. Heindorf quotes parallels from Aristophanes, e.g. Peace, 330-1 οὐκἂν ὀρχησαίμεθ᾽, εἴπερ ὠφελήσαιμέν τί σε. ἀλλ᾽ ὁρᾶτ᾽, οὔπω πέπαυσθε. Where ὁρᾷς or ὁρᾶτε stand in this way as the first word of a sentence, editors generally regard the usage as interrogative, e.g. Eur. Orest. 581 ὁρᾷς; Ὀδυσσέως ἄλοχον οὐ κατέκτανε.

70. καὶ σύ. So the original hand in T: B has καί σοι. If we read καὶ σοί, the construction is ἀξιῶν αὑτῷ τε ἐξεῖναι διαλέγεσθαι ὅπως βούλεται καὶ σοὶ ἐξεῖναι κτλ., but Protagoras has nowhere asked that Socrates should be permitted to converse as he likes: quite the contrary. With σύ the construction is καὶ σὺ δίκαια δοκεῖς λέγειν ἀξιῶν διαλέγεσθαι ὅπως ἂν κτλ., i.e. and your demand that Protagoras should converse as you wish likewise seems fair. Protagoras asked to be allowed to use his own style in 335A Socrates requested that Protagoras should converse as Socrates wished in 334D 335C 335E Alcibiades' defence of Socrates in the next chapter seems also to imply the reading σύ here. The only objection to this view lies in the position of τε after αὑτῷ: we should expect it to follow Πρωταγόρας. τε is however frequently misplaced (see above on 316D. σοί can only be retained if we either (1) take καὶ σοί as altogether independent of ἀξιῶν— which is barely possible, or (2) regard Plato as guilty of inaccurate writing.

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hide References (28 total)
  • Commentary references from this page (28):
    • Herodotus, Histories, 6.105
    • Herodotus, Histories, 1.30
    • Plato, Laws, 840a
    • Plato, Republic, 496a
    • Plato, Republic, 359b
    • Plato, Republic, 367e
    • Plato, Republic, 478a
    • Plato, Republic, 563a
    • Plato, Apology, 20d
    • Plato, Crito, 44d
    • Plato, Theaetetus, 148c
    • Plato, Symposium, 219b
    • Plato, Phaedrus, 267b
    • Plato, Meno, 89b
    • Plato, Protagoras, 316d
    • Plato, Protagoras, 317c
    • Plato, Protagoras, 328d
    • Plato, Gorgias, 449c
    • Plato, Gorgias, 461d
    • Plato, Protagoras, 311e
    • Plato, Protagoras, 314a
    • Plato, Protagoras, 329a
    • Plato, Protagoras, 334d
    • Plato, Protagoras, 335a
    • Plato, Protagoras, 335c
    • Plato, Protagoras, 335e
    • Plato, Protagoras, 343d
    • Plato, Protagoras, 348a
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