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[429] This speech of Thetis has given rise to serious critical doubts. Ar. athetized 444-56, like 1.366 ff., on the ground that the recapitulation is out of place, and that the sending of Patroklos did not result from the embassy, as seems to be implied in 451. To a modern critic the mention of the Presbeia is in itself evidence of late origin. To this may be added that a large part of the speech is simply repeated from other places; 437-43 = 56-62; 444-45 = 16.56, 58; 456 = 19.414; 457 = Od. 3.92, Od. 4.322; and compare 448 with 9.574, 449 with 9.121, 515. There are several phrases which are common in the Od. but do not recur in the Iliad, see 435, 457. But this proves only that the passage is late, not that it is later than the context. The whole of the “ὁπλοποιΐα” may be as late as the Presbeia; and though the reference in 450-51 does not give the whole course of events, it is near enough — there is only omission, not mis-statement. The whole speech may well have been composed for this place from the first. — There is a certain dry humour in Schol. T on 429; “ἐμιμήσατο ἦθος θηλειῶν, οὐ περὶ ὧν ἠρώτηται ἀποκρινομένη, ἀλλὰ περὶ ὧν