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CHAPTER III

Socrates cross-examines Hippocrates as to his purpose in putting himself under Protagoras, and elicits from him that his object is liberal education.

1. ἀναστάντες εἰς τὴν αὐλήν. For ἀναστάντες after ἐξαναστῶμεν cf. below, 314Cwhere ἐπιστάντες is followed by στάντες, 328Eἐπεκδιδάξειἐξεδίδαξεν, 361Cδιεξελθόνταςἐξελθεῖν; Phaedo, 104D ἐπὶ τὸ τοιοῦτον δή, φαμέν, ἐναντία ἰδέα ἐκείνῃ τῇ μοπφῇ, ἂν τοῦτο ἀρεπγάζηται, οὐδέροτ᾽ ἂν ἔλθοιεἰπγάζετο δέ γε περιττή; Euthyd. 281C οὐκ ἐλάττω πράττων ἐλάττω ἂν ἐξαμαρτάνοι, ἐλάττω δὲ ἁμαρτάνων ἦττον ἂν κακῶς πράττοι and Rep. I. 336E; Phaedo, 59B; Crito, 44D; Crat. 399A-B.

2. ἀποπειρώμενοςδιεσκόπουν. ῥώμη of strength of will and resolution (cf. ἀνδρεία above 310D as in Polit. 259C πρὸς τὴν τῆς ψυχῆς σύνεσιν καὶ ῥώμην. γνώμης, the suggestion of Hoenebeek, would be much less forcible and exact.

6. ὥσπερ ἂν εἰ κτλ. ἄν goes with ἀπεκρίνω in l. II. The application of the similes follows in D, and each illustration contains two subordinate protases, viz. (in B) (1) εἰ ἐπενόειςἐκείνῳ, (2) εἴ τίς σε ἤρετο, and (in C) (1) εἰ δὲἐκείνοις, (2) εἴ τίς σε ἤρετο. With this multiplication of protases Heindorf compares Meno, 74B μανθάνεις γάρ που ὅτι οὑτωσὶ ἔχει περὶ παντός: εἴ τίς σε ἀνέποιτο τοῦτο νῦν δὴ ἐγὼ ἔλεγον, τί ἐστι σχῆμα, Μένων; εἰ αὐτῷ εἶρες ὅτι στπογγυλότης, εἴ σοι εἶρεν ἅρεπ ἐγώ, ρότεπον σχῆμα στπογγυλότης ἐστὶν σχῆμά τι; εἶρες δή ρου ἂν ὅτι σχῆμά τι. The reasoning from analogy is quite in Socrates' style: see for example Gorg. 448B ff.

7. Ιπποκράτητὸν τῶνΑσκληπιαδῶν. It is unnecessary (with Naber) to bracket Ἱπποκράτη. Hippocrates, the founder of medical science, born about 460 B.C. in Cos, was at the height of his renown about the year 400. He is referred to also in Phaedrus, 270C (εἰ μὲν οὖν Ἱπποκράτει γε τῷ τῶν Ἀσκληπιαδῶν δεῖ τι πείθεσθαι) as holding the view that the human body could not be Compare Ar. Peace, 383 εἰπέ μοι τί πάσχετ᾽ ὦνδρες; Pl. Euthyd. 283B εἰπέ μοι, ἔφη, Σώκρατές τε καὶ ὑμεῖς οἱ ἄλλοι. The exhortation or command is in general primarily addressed to one man: contrast, however, below, 330Band Lach. 186E σὺ δ᾽, Λάχης καὶ Νικία, εἴπετον ἡμῖν ἑκάτερος.

28. ἄλλο γε, i.e. other than the name ‘Protagoras’. It is more in accordance with Plato's usage to make the first question end with the first ἀκούομεν, and regard the ὥσπερ clause as introducing the second question τί τοιοῦτον περὶ Πρωταγόρου ἀκούομεν; This second question is rejected by Cobet as spurious, but the punctuation which we have adopted seems to remove the difficulty. The ὥσπερ clause defines in advance the meaning of τοιοῦτον: for this and for the asyndeton compare Sophist. 258B-C πότερον οὖνδεῖ θαρροῦντα ἤδη λέγειν ὅτι τὸ μὴ ὂν βεβαίως ἐστὶ τὴν αὑτοῦ φύσιν ἔχον; ὥσρεπ τὸ μέγα ἦν μέγα καὶ τὸ καλὸν ἦν καλὸν καὶ τὸ μὴ μέγα μὴ μέγα καὶ τὸ μὴ καλὸν μὴ καλόν, οὕτω δὲ καὶ τὸ μὴ ὂν κατὰ ταὐτὸν ἦν τε καὶ ἔστι μὴ ὄν, ἐνάπιθμον τῶν πολλῶν ὄντων εἶδος ἕν; Crat. 394AB; Theaet. 172D with Heindorf's note. See also 330Aὥσπερ τὰ τοῦ προσώπου, where the same punctuation should be adopted. In l. 31 the MSS. read ἠκούομεν by mistake for ἀκούομεν.

31. σοφιστήνεἶναι. On σοφιστής see below, note on 312C γε implies that Protagoras may be a sophist only in name. εἶναι is frequently used with verbs of naming: cf. Lach. 192A ἐν πᾶσιν ὀνομάζεις ταχυτῆτα εἶναι. Cobet's suggestion to read εἶεν, ἔφην, ὡς for εἶναι, ἔφη. ὡς is ingenious but needless.

34. αὐτὸς δὲ δὴπαρὰ τὸν Πρωταγόραν, sc. τί ἂν ἀποκρίναιο;

36. ὑπέφαινέν τι ἡμέρας. ὑποφαίνει ἡμέρα is used, as Heindorf says, de die illucescente. Here τι ἡμέρας = ‘something of day’, ‘some daylight’.

37. εἰ μέν τιἔοικεν. Heindorf remarks that Stephanus' conjecture τοῦτο ἔοικεν is needless, the vague indefinite subject being frequently omitted. Cf. Crat. 387D εἴπερ τι τοῖς ἔμπροσθεν μέλλει ὁμολογούμενον εἶναι; Phaedo, 99E ἴσως μὲν οὖν ὧ̣ εἰκάζω τρόπον τινὰ οὐκ ἔοικεν.

39. εἰς τοὑς Ἕλληνας σαυτόν. εἰς τοὺς Ἕλληνας goes with παρέχων: cf. Symp. 179B ἱκανὴν μαρτυρίαν παρέχεταιεἰς τοὺς Ἕλληνας. Young men of fashion were fond of looking to Greek, as opposed to Athenian, public opinion. The MSS. have αὑτόν, but the use of the third personal reflexive pronoun for the first and second in the singular number does not seem to be certain in Plato; and it is simplest to suppose that ς fell out after Ἕλληνας: Schanz, VII, xii.

41. ἀλλ᾽ ἄραμὴ οὐ τοιαύτην. οὐ goes closely with τοιαύτην, and μή is virtually ‘perhaps’ (originally ‘lest’ as in ὅρα μή Theaet. 145B): ‘but perhaps after all (ἄρα) this is not the kind of learning which etc.’ Cf. Euthyd. 290E ἀλλ᾽ ἄραμὴ Κτήσιππος ἦν ταῦτ᾽ εἰπών and Apol. 25A ἀλλ᾽ ἄραμὴ οἱ ἐν τῇ ἐκκλησία̣, οἱ ἐκκλησιασταί, διαφθείρουσι τοὺς νεωτέρους; Meno, 89C μὴ τοῦτο οὐ καλῶς ὡμολογήσαμεν. In all of these passages it is better to take μή in this way than as equivalent to Latin num. From this use of μή grew up the use of μήποτε = ‘perhaps’, frequent in Aristotle and later, e.g. Eth. Nic. X. 2. 1173a. 22 μή ποτ᾽ οὐ λέγουσιν το αἴτιον.

43. οἵαπερ παρἀ is the reading of T: B has οἵα περὶ. The γραμματισταί of Athens were schoolmasters, who besides teaching reading and writing (cf. below, 326D translated (ἑρμηνεύειν) Homer and interpreted his γλῶτται. They were distinct from the γραμματικοί or κριτικοί who pursued more scientific literary and grammatical studies. The κιθαριστής and γραμματιστής between them taught μουσική, and the παιδοτρίβης γυμναστική; and μουσική and γυμναστική were the two parts of παιδεία or liberal education: Rep. II. 376E.

45. ἐπὶ τέχνῃἀλλ᾽ ἐπὶ παιδείᾳ: cf. 315Aἐπὶ τέχνῃ μανθάνει, ὡς σοφιστὴς ἐσόμενος. The distinction between professional and liberal (ὡς τὸν ἰδιώτην καὶ τὸν ἐλεύθερον πρέπει) education is frequently emphasised by Plato (see especially Laws, I. 643D): his word for the latter is always παιδεία, cf. Gorg. 485A, Rep. VI. 492C. The ‘arts’ are throughout the Republic looked on as βάναυσοι, and unfit for men whose souls are free.

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hide References (31 total)
  • Commentary references from this page (31):
    • Aristophanes, Peace, 383
    • Plato, Laws, 643d
    • Plato, Republic, 336e
    • Plato, Republic, 376e
    • Plato, Republic, 492c
    • Plato, Apology, 25a
    • Plato, Crito, 44d
    • Plato, Phaedo, 104d
    • Plato, Phaedo, 59b
    • Plato, Phaedo, 99e
    • Plato, Cratylus, 387d
    • Plato, Cratylus, 394a
    • Plato, Cratylus, 399a
    • Plato, Theaetetus, 145b
    • Plato, Theaetetus, 172d
    • Plato, Symposium, 179b
    • Plato, Laches, 186e
    • Plato, Laches, 192a
    • Plato, Meno, 74b
    • Plato, Euthydemus, 290e
    • Plato, Gorgias, 448b
    • Plato, Gorgias, 485a
    • Plato, Protagoras, 310d
    • Plato, Protagoras, 312c
    • Plato, Protagoras, 314c
    • Plato, Protagoras, 315a
    • Plato, Protagoras, 326d
    • Plato, Protagoras, 328e
    • Plato, Protagoras, 330a
    • Plato, Protagoras, 330b
    • Plato, Protagoras, 361c
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