J. Adam, A. M. Adam, Commentary on Plato, Protagoras
J. Adam & A. M. Adam, Ed.

CHAPTER VIII

After Hippocrates has been introduced to Protagoras, the latter enlarges upon the antiquity of his profession. At the suggestion of Socrates a circle is formed to hear the Sophists discourse.

3. Κριτίας the foremost of the Thirty so-called tyrants was related to Plato on the mother's side, Perictione Plato's mother being granddaughter of the elder Critias, who was father of Callaeschrus. He is one of the dramatis personae in the Charmides and Timaeus, and the dialogue Critias is named after him. A scholiast on the Timaeus, 20A (quoted by Stallbaum) describes him as γενναίας καὶ ἁδρᾶς φύσεως, ἥπτετο δὲ καὶ φιλοσόφων συνουσιῶν, καὶ ἐκαλεῖτο ἰδιώτης μὲν ἐν φιλοσόφοις, φιλόσοφος δὲ ἐν ἰδιώταις. For the fragments of his poems see Bergk's Poetae Lyrici Graeci⁴, II, 279 ff.

4. ἔτι σμίκρ᾽ ἄττα—διαθεασάμενοι. σμίκρ᾽ ἄττα is the plural of σμικρόν τι, and as ἔτι σμικρόν τι διατρίψαντες would mean ‘after a little further delay’, so ἔτι σμίκρ᾽ ἄττα διατρίψαντες means ‘after some little further delays’. The reference in ἔτι is to 314C ταῦτα in καὶ ταῦτα refers to the causes of the delays, which were, as usual, some topics of discourse: its antecedent is involved in διατρίψαντες.

6. πρὸς σέ τοι ἤλθομεν. Here, as in 314E both B and T have τι for τοι: but τι is impossible here, and this use of τοι is very frequent in address: Heindorf refers (inter alia) to Ar. Plut. 1100 σέ τοι σέ τοι λέγω, Καρίων, ἀνάμεινον.

15. οἴεταί οἱ μάλιστ᾽ ἂν γενέσθαι. B and T read μάλιστα without ἄν: see on Crito, 51E. It is more likely that ἄν should have dropped out after μάλιστα here than that Plato's usage should have varied with οἴομαι and the aorist infinitive referring to the future: cf. below, 353Bᾗ οἶμαι ἂν ἔγωγε κάλλιστα φανερὸν γενέσθαι, where ἄν is in all the MSS.

17. μόνος οἴει δεῖν—πρὸς μόνους. οἴει δεῖν is virtually like one verb, ἀξιοῖς or the like: it therefore takes the nom. (not the acc.) with inf.; cf. Demosth. Fals. Leg. 235 εὐθὺς ἡγούμην ἐν τούτοις—αὐτὸς περιεῖναι δεῖν αὐτῶν καὶ μεγαλοψυχότερος φαίνεσθαι, quoted by Stallbaum on Crito, 50E. Note that Protagoras here uses the more precise μόνος πρὸς μόνους, but above only μόνῳ (316 B)—unless (with Cobet and Schanz) we there insert μόνοι before μόνῳ.

19. ξένον γὰρ ἄνδρα καὶ ἰόντα κτλ. For καὶ ἰόντα T reads in the margin κατιόντα: Liebhold suggests καταλύοντα. ἰόντα, however, is parallel to ξένον and to πείθοντα, ‘a man who is a stranger and goes—and tries to persuade etc.’ The whole passage recalls Apol. 19E-20A τούτων (viz. Gorgias, Prodicus, Hippias) γὰρ ἕκαστος—οἷός τ᾽ ἐστὶν ἰὼν εἰς ἑκάστην τῶν πόλεων τοὺς νέους οἷς ἔξεστι τῶν ἑαυτῶν ρολιτῶν ρποῖκα ξυνεῖναι ᾧ ἂν βούλωνται—τούτους ρείθουσι τὰς ἐκείνων ξυνουσίας ἀρολιρόντας σφίσιν ξυνεῖναι χρήματα διδόντας καὶ χάριν προσειδέναι. Notice throughout the longwinded character of Protagoras' speeches: cf. Philostrat. Vit. Soph. I. 494 (quoted by Kroschel on 320C, γνοὺς δὲ τὸν Πρωταγόραν ὁ Πλάτων σεμνῶς μὲν ἑρμηνεύοντα, ὑπτιάζοντα δὲ τῇ σεμνότητι καί που καὶ μακρολογώτερον τοῦ συμμέτρου, τὴν ἰδέαν αὐτοῦ μύθῳ μακρῷ ἐχαρακτήρισεν.

29. τὸ ἐπαχθὲς αὐτῆς. ἐπαχθές like φορτικόν means what hearers will resent (think a burden or ἄχθος) as in bad taste because presumptuous: cf. Demosth. de Pace, 4 τὸ λέγειν περὶ ὧν αὐτὸς εἶρέ τις καὶ ρεπὶ αὑτοῦ—οὕτως ἡγοῦμαι φοπτικὸν καὶ ἐπαχθὲς ὥστε κτλ.

30. τοὺς μὲν ποίησιν. σοφός and its derivatives are often used especially in early writers in connection with poetry, e.g Theognis, 19-20 Κύρνε σοφιζομένῳ μὲν ἐμοὶ σφρηγὶς ἐπικείσθω τοῖσδ᾽ ἔπεσιν, Pindar, Isthm. 4. 29-30 μελέταν δὲ σοφισταῖς Διὸς ἕκατι πρόσβαλον σεβιζόμενοι.

32. τοὺς ἀμφί τε Ὀρφέα καὶ Μουσαῖον = ‘Orpheus and Musaeus and their schools’. The Editors quote Ar. Frogs, 1032 ff. Ὀρφεὺς μὲν γὰρ τελετάς θ᾽ ἡμῖν κατέδειξε φόνων τ᾽ ἀρέχεσθαι, Μουσαῖος δ᾽ ἐξακέσεις τε νόσων καὶ χπησμούς, Ἡσίοδος δὲ γῆς ἐργασίας, καρπῶν ὥρας, ἀρότους: ὁ δὲ θεῖος Ὅμηρος ἀπὸ τοῦ τιμὴν καὶ κλέος ἔσχεν πλὴν τοῦδ᾽ ὅτι χρήστ᾽ ἐδίδαξε, τάξεις, ἀρετάς, ὁπλίσεις ἀνδρῶν; For the misplacement of τε cf. Crito, 43B ὲν τοσαύτῃ τε ἀγρυπνίᾳ καὶ λύπῃ εἶναι.

34. Ἴκκος—Ἡρόδικος. Iccus is mentioned in Laws, VIII. 839E ff. as a model of temperance. According to Pausanias, he won in the pentathlon at the Olympic Games and afterwards set up as a trainer (γυμναστής). Herodicus of Selymbria in Thrace combined the professions of the γυμναστής and ἰατρός (μίξας γυμναστικὴν ἰατρικῇ). He is described in Rep. III. 406A as the inventor of the παιδαγωγικὴ τῶν νοσημάτων ἰατρική—by means of which he tortured first himself (by prolonging his own dying) and afterwards others: δυσθανατῶν—ὑπὸ σοφίας εἰς γῆρας ἀφίκετο (ibid. B).

ὁ νῦν ἔτι ὤν—σοφιστής. Heindorf reads ἧττον in place of ἥττων, but νῦν ἔτι ὤν is ‘still living’ and οὐδενὸς ἥττων σοφιστής is a descriptive qualification.

37. Ἀγαθοκλῆς—Πυθοκλείδης. Agathocles is mentioned in Lach. 180D as teacher of Damon: according to the Alc. I, 118C Pythoclides also taught Pericles. A scholiast on the Alc. I (loc. cit.) remarks: Πυθοκλείδης μουσικὸς ἦν τῆς σεμνῆς μουσικῆς διδάσκαλος, καὶ Πυθαγόρειος, οὗ μαθητὴς Ἀγαθοκλῆς, οὗ Λαμπροκλῆς (Λάμπρος, van Prinsterer), οὗ Δάμων. With the sentiment compare the imitation in Plut. Pericl. 4. 2 ὁ δὲ Δάμων ἔοικεν ἄκπος ὢν σοφιστὴς καταδύεσθαι μὲν εἰς τὸ τῆς μουσικῆς ὄνομα ρπὸς τοὺς πολλοὺς ἐπικρυπτόμενος τὴν δεινότητα.

40. ταῖς τέχναις ταύταις παραπετάσμασιν ἐχρήσαντο. Cf. Plut. Pericl. loc. cit. οὐ μὴν ἔλαθεν ὁ Δάμων τῇ λύρᾳ παρακαλύμματι χρώμενος.

41. κατὰ τοῦτο εἶναι. εἶναι is redundant as in Isaeus, περὶ τοῦ Μενεκλέους κλήρου, 32 ἡμεῖς ὠμόσαμεν εὖ ποιεῖν ἀλλήλους— κατὰ δύναμιν εἶναι, καὶ λόγῳ καὶ ἔργῳ, and in the common ἑκὼν εἶναι: but no other instance of the precise phrase κατὰ τοῦτο εἶναι is quoted.

45. οἵ γε πολλοὶ—οὐδὲν αἰσθάνονται. Cf. Gorg. 474A τοὺς δὲ πολλοὺς ἐῶ χαίρειν, καὶ ἕνα ἐπιψηφίζειν ἐπίσταμαι, τοῖς δὲ πολλοῖς οὐδὲ διαλέγομαι. For ὡς ἔπος εἰπεῖν (to be taken with οὐδὲν) see on Apol. 17A. The phrase is used to qualify the comprehension of a word or phrase, generally οὐδείς or πάντες.

47. τὸ οὖν—ἐπιχειρήματος. B and T read τὸν for τό, by a natural error. Heindorf compares Theaet. 144A τὸ γὰρ εὐμαθῆ ὄντα—ρπᾷον αὖ εἶναι διαφεπόντως—ἐγὼ μὲν οὔτ᾽ ἂν ᾠόμην γενέσθαι κτλ. and Rep. I. 331B τὸ γὰρ μηδὲ ἄκοντά τινα ἐξαπατῆσαι—μέγα μέρος εἰς τοῦτο ἡ τῶν χρημάτων κτῆσις συμβάλλεται. Here καὶ τοῦ ἐπιχειρήματος is a virtual repetition of ἀποδιδράσκοντα: cf. τὸν ταῦτα πράττοντα above in 316C The sentence reminds one of the practice observed in Spartan education—to punish the youths not for stealing but for failing to escape with their booty: Xen. Rep. Laced. 2. 8 εἴποι δ᾽ ἂν οὖν τις: τί δῆτα, εἴρεπ τὸ κλέρτειν ἀγαθὸν ἐνόμιζε, ρολλὰς ρληγὰς ἐρέβαλε τῷ ἁλισκομένῳ; ὅτι, φημὶ ἐγώ, καὶ τἄλλα, ὅσα ἄνθπωροι διδάσκουσι, κολάζουσι τὸν μὴ καλῶς ὑπηρετοῦντα: cf. Rep. I. 361A τὸν ἁλισκόμενον δὲ φαῦλον ἡγητέον.

52. τούτων τὴν ἐναντίαν ἅπασαν ὁδόν. ‘h. e. τὴν ὁδὸν ἣ ἅπασά ἐστιν ἐναντία τούτων. pro τούτων eadem comparatione quae vocatur compendiaria dici potuit τούτοις. Andocid. or. I. 4 ἐγὼ πολὺ τὴν ἐναντίαν τούτοις γνώμην ἔχω’ (Kroschel). For ἅπασαν with an adjective compare (with Kroschel) Xen. Anab. I. 5. I ἧν ἡ γῆ πεδίον ἅπαν ὁμαλὲς ὥσπερ θάλαττα and the common phrase πᾶν τοὐναντίον.

54. σοφιστὴς εἶναι καὶ παιδεύειν ἀνθρώπους. The σοφιστὴς σοφίζει, i.e. παιδεύει: see note on 312Cabove. Theaet. 167C (where Socrates is speaking for Protagoras) ὁ σοφιστὴς τοὺς ραιδευομένους οὕτω δυνάμενος ραιδαγωγεῖν σοφός τε καὶ ἄξιος πολλῶν χρημάτων τοῖς παιδευθεῖσιν.

57. σὺν θεῷ εἰπεῖν. ‘Crebra modestiae formula, bene explicat Steph., quod ita dico, ut in eo opem divinam agnoscam’. Heindorf on Theaet. 151B καὶ σὺν θεῷ εἰπεῖν, πάνυ ἱκανῶς τοπάζω οἶς ἂν συγγενόμενοι ὄναιντο.

59. πολλά γε ἔτη ἤδη εἰμὶ ἐν τῇ τέχνῃ. Meno, 91E οἶμαι γὰρ αὐτὸν (i.e. Πρωταγόραν) ἀποθανεῖν ἐγγὺς καὶ ἑβδομήκοντα ἔτη γεγονότα, τετταράκοντα δὲ ἐν τῇ τέχνῃ ὄντα. The phrases εἶναι ἐν τῇ τέχνῃ, ἐν φιλοσοφίᾳ and the like are common.

60. οὐδενὸς ὅτου οὐ. For the asyndeton Heindorf compares Hom. Od. XIV. 96 ἧ γάρ οἱ ζωή γ᾽ ἦν ἄσπετος: οὔ τινι τόσση ἀνδρῶν ἡρώων. The nearest parallel to πάντων (which Cobet rejects) after οὐδενὸς ὅτου οὐ seems to be in Dem. adv. Lept. § 3 οὐ γὰρ ἔστιν ἐφ᾽ ὅτου τοῦτο οὐ πεπόνθατε τῶν πάντων (quoted by Heindorf).

62. ἁπάντων goes with τῶν ἔνδον ὄντων. It seems better to take περὶ τούτων with βούλεσθε than with τὸν λόγον ποιεῖσθαι: otherwise it is hardly possible to separate τούτων from ἁπάντων.

65. ἐνδείξασθαι καὶ καλλωπίσασθαι—ὅτι ἐρασταί. ὅτι depends rather on ἐνδείξασθαι than on καλλωπίσασθαι: cf. below, 327Aἐδίδασκε καὶ ἐπέπληττε τὸν μὴ καλῶς αὐλοῦντα, and ibid. B τῶν δικαίων καὶ τῶν νομίμων οὐδεὶς φθονεῖ οὐδ᾽ ἀποκρύπτεται ὥσπερ τῶν ἅλλων τεχνημάτων, Phaedo, 94D τὰ μὲν ἀπειλοῦσα, τὰ δὲ νουθετοῦσα ταῖς ἐπιθυμίαις. See also notes on 327Aand 335Ebelow.

66. εἶμεν. BT read εἴημεν, but in Plato's time the short form of the optative plural is regular: see on Apol. 22E.

τί οὖν—οὐ—ἐκαλέσαμεν. See above on 310A and for ἐπακούσωσιν note on 315A

70. καθεζόμενοι. So T: B has καθιζόμενοι, but presently in 317Eboth MSS. read συνεκαθεζόμεθα.

72. καὶ αὐτοὶ ἀντιλαβόμενοι. This passage is difficult and different views are possible as to the construction and meaning. The MSS. read καὶ αὐτοί τε. If the MSS. reading is retained, τε must be regarded as answering to δέ in ἐν δὲ τούτῳ (cf. Euthyphr. 3E), and καὶ αὐτοί = etiam ipsi, i.e. even without waiting for servants—a harsh explanation both for καί and αὐτοί. If τε is left out (with most of the editors, following Heindorf), καὶ αὐτοί means ‘ourselves also’ as opposed to Callias and Alcibiades in ἐν δὲ τούτῳ Καλλίας τε καὶ Ἀλκιβιάδης. There is still a slight difficulty in contrasting αὐτοί with these two, because they also would seem to be included in αὐτοί (πάντες ἡμεῖς—καὶ αὐτοί), but such slight inaccuracies of expression are common in actual dialogue, which Plato's style is intended to imitate.

75. Καλλίας. Hermann read Κριτίας in order to escape the slight difficulty remarked on in the preceding note: ‘sed hospitis erat Prodicum ut accederet invitare’ (Kroschel).

76. ἀναστήσαντες: but ἄγοντε just before. Euthyd. 273B offers an exact parallel (if we follow the reading of the Bodleian MS.): ἰδόντες δὲ αὐτὸν ὅ τε Διονυσόδωρος καὶ ὁ Εὐθύδημος πρῶτον μὲν ἐριστάντε διελεγέσθην ἀλλήλοιν, ἄλλην καὶ ἄλλην ἀροβλέροντες εἰς ἡμᾶς: cf. ibid. 273A εἰσελθόντες—περιεπατείτην and D ἐγελασάτην γοῦν ἄμφω βλέψαντες εἰς ἀλλήλους. The dual in Plato as in Greek generally is apt to sink into the plural.