previous next
[441a] three existing kinds that composed its structure, the moneymakers, the helpers, the counsellors, so also in the soul there exists a third kind, this principle of high spirit, which is the helper of reason by nature unless it is corrupted by evil nurture?” “We have to assume it as a third,” he said. “Yes,” said I, “provided1 it shall have been shown to be something different from the rational, as it has been shown to be other than the appetitive.” “That is not hard to be shown,” he said; “for that much one can see in children, that they are from their very birth chock-full of rage and high spirit, but as for reason, [441b] some of them, to my thinking, never participate in it, and the majority quite late.” “Yes, by heaven, excellently said,” I replied; “and further, one could see in animals that what you say is true. And to these instances we may add the testimony of Homer quoted above:“ He smote his breast and chided thus his heart.
Hom. Od. 20.17 For there Homer has clearly represented that in us [441c] which has reflected about the better and the worse as rebuking that which feels unreasoning anger as if it were a distinct and different thing.” “You are entirely right,” he said.

“Through these waters, then,” said I, “we have with difficulty made our way2 and we are fairly agreed that the same kinds equal in number are to be found in the state and in the soul of each one of us.” “That is so.” “Then does not the necessity of our former postulate immediately follow, that as and whereby3 the state was wise so and thereby is the individual wise?” “Surely.” “And so whereby and as [441d] the individual is brave, thereby and so is the state brave, and that both should have all the other constituents of virtue in the same way4?” “Necessarily.” “Just too, then, Glaucon, I presume we shall say a man is in the same way in which a city was just.” “That too is quite inevitable.” “But we surely cannot have forgotten this, that the state was just by reason of each of the three classes found in it fulfilling its own function.” “I don't think we have forgotten,” he said. “We must remember, then, that each of us also in whom5 the several parts within him [441e] perform each their own task—he will be a just man and one who minds his own affair.” “We must indeed remember,” he said. “Does it not belong to the rational part to rule, being wise and exercising forethought in behalf of the entire soul, and to the principle of high spirit to be subject to this and its ally?” “Assuredly.” “Then is it not, as we said,6 the blending of music and gymnastics that will render them concordant, intensifying

1 It still remains to distinguish the λογιστικόν from θυμός, which is done first by pointing out that young children and animals possess θυμός(Cf. Laws 963 E, Aristotle Politics 1334 b 22 ff.), and by quoting a line of Homer already cited in 390 D, and used in Phaedo 94 E, to prove that the soul, regarded there as a unit, is distinct from the passions, there treated as belonging to the body, like the mortal soul of the Timaeus. See Unity of Plato's Thought, pp. 42-43.

2 Cf. Parmenides 137 A, Pindar, Ol. xiii. 114ἐκνεῦσαι.

3 Cf. 435 B.

4 Cf. Meno 73 C, Hippias Major 295 D. A virtual synonym for τῷ αὐτῷ εἶδει, Meno 72 E.

5 ὅτου: cf. 431 Bοὗ, and 573 Dὧν.

6 Cf. 411 E, 412 A.

Creative Commons License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 United States License.

An XML version of this text is available for download, with the additional restriction that you offer Perseus any modifications you make. Perseus provides credit for all accepted changes, storing new additions in a versioning system.

load focus Notes (James Adam)
load focus Greek (1903)
hide Places (automatically extracted)

View a map of the most frequently mentioned places in this document.

Sort places alphabetically, as they appear on the page, by frequency
Click on a place to search for it in this document.
Meno (Oklahoma, United States) (1)
Meno (New York, United States) (1)

Download Pleiades ancient places geospacial dataset for this text.

hide Dates (automatically extracted)
Sort dates alphabetically, as they appear on the page, by frequency
Click on a date to search for it in this document.
1334 AD (1)
hide Display Preferences
Greek Display:
Arabic Display:
View by Default:
Browse Bar: