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Plato, Republic, Book 5, section 453a (search)
exhaustive method. and under which of these heads this business of war falls. Would not this be that best beginning which would naturally and proverbially lead to the best endA)RXO/MENOS . . . TELEUTH/SEIN: an overlooked reference to a proverb also overlooked by commentators on Pindar, Pyth. i. 35. Cf. Pindar, fr. 108 A Loeb, Laws 775 E, Sophocles, fr. 831 (Pearson), Antiphon the Sophist, fr. 60 (Diels).?” “Far the best,” he said. “Shall we then conduct the debate with ourselves in behalf of those othersThis pleading the opponent's case for him is common in Plato. Cf. especially the plea for Protagoras in Theaetetus 166-167. so that the case of the other side may not be taken defenceless and g
Plato, Republic, Book 6, section 497c (search)
it finds the best polity as it itself is the best, then will it be apparentFor the idiom cf.AU)TO\ DEI/CEIPhileb. 20 C, with Stallbaum's note, Theaet. 200 E, Hipp. Maj. 288 B, Aristoph.Wasps 994, Frogs 1261, etc., Pearson on Soph. fr. 388. Cf.AU)TO\ SHMANEI=, Eurip.Bacch. 476, etc. that this was in truth divine and all the others human in their natures and practices. Obviously then you are next, going to ask what is this best form of government.” “Wrong,” he saidPlato similarly plays in dramatic fashion with the order of the dialogue in 523 B, 528 A, 451 B-C, 458 B. “I was going to ask not that but whether it is this one that we have described in our establishment