[463a]
whether this is the rhetoric which Gorgias practices, for from our argument just now we got no very clear view as to how he conceives it; but what I call rhetoric is a part of a certain business which has nothing fine about it.Gorgias
What is that, Socrates? Tell us, without scruple on my account.Socrates
It seems to me then, Gorgias, to be a pursuit that is not a matter of art, but showing a shrewd, gallant spirit which has a natural bent for clever dealing with mankind, and I sum up its substance in the name flattery. [463b] This practice, as I view it, has many branches, and one of them is cookery; which appears indeed to be an art but, by my account of it, is not an art but a habitude or knack. I call rhetoric another branch of it, as also personal adornment and sophistry—four branches of it for four kinds of affairs. So if Polus would inquire, let him inquire: he has not yet been informed to what sort of branch of flattery [463c] I assign rhetoric; but without noticing that I have not yet answered that, he proceeds to ask whether I do not consider it a fine thing. But I am not going to reply to the question whether I consider rhetoric a fine or a base thing, until I have first answered what it is; for it would not be fair, Polus: but if you want the information, ask me what sort of branch of flattery I assert rhetoric to be.Polus
I ask you then; so answer, what sort of branch it is.Socrates
Now, will you understand when I answer? Rhetoric, [463d] by my account, is a semblance1 of a branch of politics.Polus
Well then, do you call it a fine or a base thing?Socrates
A base one, I call it—for all that is bad I call base—since I am to answer you as though you had already understood my meaning.Gorgias
Nor do I myself, upon my word, Socrates, [463e] grasp your meaning either.Socrates
And no wonder, Gorgias, for as yet my statement is not at all clear; but Polus2 here is so young and fresh!Gorgias
Ah, do not mind him; but tell me what you mean by rhetoric being a semblance of a branch of politics.Socrates
Well, I will try to express what rhetoric appears to me to be: if it is not in fact what I say, Polus here will refute me. There are things, I suppose, that you call body and soul?
What is that, Socrates? Tell us, without scruple on my account.Socrates
It seems to me then, Gorgias, to be a pursuit that is not a matter of art, but showing a shrewd, gallant spirit which has a natural bent for clever dealing with mankind, and I sum up its substance in the name flattery. [463b] This practice, as I view it, has many branches, and one of them is cookery; which appears indeed to be an art but, by my account of it, is not an art but a habitude or knack. I call rhetoric another branch of it, as also personal adornment and sophistry—four branches of it for four kinds of affairs. So if Polus would inquire, let him inquire: he has not yet been informed to what sort of branch of flattery [463c] I assign rhetoric; but without noticing that I have not yet answered that, he proceeds to ask whether I do not consider it a fine thing. But I am not going to reply to the question whether I consider rhetoric a fine or a base thing, until I have first answered what it is; for it would not be fair, Polus: but if you want the information, ask me what sort of branch of flattery I assert rhetoric to be.Polus
I ask you then; so answer, what sort of branch it is.Socrates
Now, will you understand when I answer? Rhetoric, [463d] by my account, is a semblance1 of a branch of politics.Polus
Well then, do you call it a fine or a base thing?Socrates
A base one, I call it—for all that is bad I call base—since I am to answer you as though you had already understood my meaning.Gorgias
Nor do I myself, upon my word, Socrates, [463e] grasp your meaning either.Socrates
And no wonder, Gorgias, for as yet my statement is not at all clear; but Polus2 here is so young and fresh!Gorgias
Ah, do not mind him; but tell me what you mean by rhetoric being a semblance of a branch of politics.Socrates
Well, I will try to express what rhetoric appears to me to be: if it is not in fact what I say, Polus here will refute me. There are things, I suppose, that you call body and soul?
