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Plato, Parmenides, section 133a (search)
and a new idea will always be arising, if the idea is like that which partakes of it.”“Very true.”“Then it is not by likeness that other things partake of ideas we must seek some other method of participation.”“So it seems.”“Do you see, then, Socrates, how great the difficulty is, if we maintain that ideas are separate, independent entities?”“Yes, certainly.”“You may be sure,” he said, “that you d
Plato, Parmenides, section 133c (search)
he who maintains that they cannot be known would be unconvinced.”“Why is that, Parmenides?” said Socrates.“Because, Socrates, I think that you or anyone else who claims that there is an absolute idea of each thing would agree in the first place that none of them exists in us.”“No, for if it did, it would no longer be absolute,” sSocrates, I think that you or anyone else who claims that there is an absolute idea of each thing would agree in the first place that none of them exists in us.”“No, for if it did, it would no longer be absolute,” said Socrates.“You are right,” he said. “Then those absolute ideas which are relative to one another have their own nature in relation to themselves, and not in relation to the likenesses,
solute idea of each thing would agree in the first place that none of them exists in us.”“No, for if it did, it would no longer be absolute,” said Socrates.“You are right,” he said. “Then those absolute ideas which are relative to one another have their own nature in relation to themselves, a
Plato, Parmenides, section 133d (search)
or whatever we choose to call them, which are amongst us, and from which we receive certain names as we participate in them. And these concrete things, which have the same names with the ideas, are likewise relative only to themselves, not to the ideas, and, belong to themselves, not to the like-named ideas.”“What do you mean?” said Socrates.“For instance,” said Parmenides, “if one of us is master or slave of anyone, he is not the slave of master in th
Plato, Parmenides, section 134a (search)
they, as I say, belong to themselves and are relative to themselves and likewise our slaves and masters are relative to themselves. You understand what I mean, do you not?”“Certainly,” said Socrates, “I understand.”“Then knowledge also, if abstract or absolute, would be knowledge of abstract or absolute truth?”“Certainly.”“And likewise each kind of absolute knowledge would be knowledge of each kind of absolute being, would it not?”“Yes.”“And would not the knowledge that exists among us be the knowledge of the truth that exists among us, and
Plato, Parmenides, section 134e (search)
nor his knowledge know us or anything of our world; we do not rule the gods with our authority, nor do we know anything of the divine with our knowledge, and by the same reasoning, they likewise, being gods, are not our masters and have no knowledge of human affairs.”“But surely this,” said he, “is a most amazing argument, if it makes us deprive God of knowledge.”“And yet, Socrates,” sai
Plato, Parmenides, section 135b (search)
and only a still more wonderful man can find out all these facts and teach anyone else to analyze them properly and understand them.”“I agree with you, Parmenides,” said Socrates, “for what you say is very much to my mind.”“But on the other hand,” said Parmenides, “if anyone, with his mind fixed on all these objections and others like them, denies the existence of ideas of things, and does not assume an idea under which each individual thing is classed, he will be q
Plato, Parmenides, section 135c (search)
since he denies that the idea of each thing is always the same, and in this way he will utterly destroy the power of carrying on discussion. You seem to have been well aware of this.”“Quite true,” he said.“Then what will become of philosophy? To what can you turn, if these things are unknown?”“I do not see at all, at least not at present.”“No, Socrates,” he said, “for you try too soon, before you are properly trained, to define the beautiful, the just, the good, and a
Plato, Parmenides, section 136d (search)
“That is a great task, Socrates,” he said, “to impose upon a man of my age.”“But you, Zeno,” said Socrates, “why do not you do it for us?”Pythodorus said that Zeno answered with a smile: “Let us ask it of Parmenides himself, Socrates; for there is a great deal in what he says, and perhaps you do not see how heavy a task you are iSocrates, “why do not you do it for us?”Pythodorus said that Zeno answered with a smile: “Let us ask it of Parmenides himself, Socrates; for there is a great deal in what he says, and perhaps you do not see how heavy a task you are imposing upon him. If there were more of us, it would not be fair to ask it of him; for it is not suitable for him to speak on such subjects before many, especially at his age;
a smile: “Let us ask it of Parmenides himself, Socrates; for there is a great deal in what he says, and perhaps you do not see how heavy a task you are imposing upon him. If there were more of us, it would not be fair to ask it of him; for it is not suitable for him to speak on such subjects before man
Plato, Parmenides, section 136e (search)
for the many do not know that except by this devious passage through all things the mind cannot attain to the truth. So I, Parmenides, join Socrates in his request, that I myself may hear the method, which I have not heard for a long time.”Antiphon said that Pythodorus told him that when Zeno said this he himself and Antisthenes and the rest begged Parmenides to show his meaning by an example and not to refuse. And Parmenides said: “I must perforce do as you a
Epictetus, Discourses (ed. George Long), book 1 (search)