[129a]
Alcibiades
Impossible.Socrates
Well, and is it an easy thing to know oneself, and was it a mere scamp who inscribed these words on the temple at Delphi; or is it a hard thing, and not a task for anybody?Alcibiades
I have often thought, Socrates, that it was for anybody; but often, too, that it was very hard.Socrates
But, Alcibiades, whether it is easy or not, here is the fact for us all the same: if we have that knowledge, we are like to know what pains to take over ourselves; but if we have it not, we never can.Alcibiades
That is so. [129b] Socrates
Come then, in what way can the same-in-itself1 be discovered? For thus we may discover what we are ourselves; whereas if we remain in ignorance of it we must surely fail.Alcibiades
Rightly spoken.Socrates
Steady, then, in Heaven's name! To whom are you talking now? To me, are you not?Alcibiades
Yes.Socrates
And I in turn to you ?Alcibiades
Yes.Socrates
Then the talker is Socrates?Alcibiades
To be sure.Socrates
And the hearer, Alcibiades?Alcibiades
Yes.Socrates
And Socrates uses speech in talking? [129c] Alcibiades
Of course.Socrates
And you call talking and using speech the same thing, I suppose.Alcibiades
To be sure.Socrates
But the user and the thing he uses are different, are they not?Alcibiades
How do you mean?Socrates
For instance, I suppose a shoemaker uses a round tool, and a square one, and others, when he cuts.Alcibiades
Yes.Socrates
And the cutter and user is quite different from what he uses in cutting?Alcibiades
Of course.Socrates
And in the same way what the harper uses in harping will be different from the harper himself?Alcibiades
Yes.Socrates
Well then, that is what I was asking just now—whether the user [129d] and what he uses are always, in your opinion, two different things.Alcibiades
They are.Socrates
Then what are we to say of the shoemaker? Does he cut with his tools only, or with his hands as well?Alcibiades
With his hands as well.Socrates
So he uses these also?Alcibiades
Yes.Socrates
Does he use his eyes, too, in his shoe-making?Alcibiades
Yes.Socrates
And we admit that the user and what he uses are different things?Alcibiades
Yes.Socrates
Then the shoemaker and the harper are different from [129e] the hands and eyes that they use for their work?Alcibiades
Apparently.Socrates
And man uses his whole body too?Alcibiades
To be sure.Socrates
And we said that the user and what he uses are different?Alcibiades
Yes.Socrates
So man is different from his own body?Alcibiades
It seems so.Socrates
Then whatever is man?Alcibiades
I cannot say.Socrates
Oh, but you can—that he is the user of the body.Alcibiades
Yes.
Impossible.Socrates
Well, and is it an easy thing to know oneself, and was it a mere scamp who inscribed these words on the temple at Delphi; or is it a hard thing, and not a task for anybody?Alcibiades
I have often thought, Socrates, that it was for anybody; but often, too, that it was very hard.Socrates
But, Alcibiades, whether it is easy or not, here is the fact for us all the same: if we have that knowledge, we are like to know what pains to take over ourselves; but if we have it not, we never can.Alcibiades
That is so. [129b] Socrates
Come then, in what way can the same-in-itself1 be discovered? For thus we may discover what we are ourselves; whereas if we remain in ignorance of it we must surely fail.Alcibiades
Rightly spoken.Socrates
Steady, then, in Heaven's name! To whom are you talking now? To me, are you not?Alcibiades
Yes.Socrates
And I in turn to you ?Alcibiades
Yes.Socrates
Then the talker is Socrates?Alcibiades
To be sure.Socrates
And the hearer, Alcibiades?Alcibiades
Yes.Socrates
And Socrates uses speech in talking? [129c] Alcibiades
Of course.Socrates
And you call talking and using speech the same thing, I suppose.Alcibiades
To be sure.Socrates
But the user and the thing he uses are different, are they not?Alcibiades
How do you mean?Socrates
For instance, I suppose a shoemaker uses a round tool, and a square one, and others, when he cuts.Alcibiades
Yes.Socrates
And the cutter and user is quite different from what he uses in cutting?Alcibiades
Of course.Socrates
And in the same way what the harper uses in harping will be different from the harper himself?Alcibiades
Yes.Socrates
Well then, that is what I was asking just now—whether the user [129d] and what he uses are always, in your opinion, two different things.Alcibiades
They are.Socrates
Then what are we to say of the shoemaker? Does he cut with his tools only, or with his hands as well?Alcibiades
With his hands as well.Socrates
So he uses these also?Alcibiades
Yes.Socrates
Does he use his eyes, too, in his shoe-making?Alcibiades
Yes.Socrates
And we admit that the user and what he uses are different things?Alcibiades
Yes.Socrates
Then the shoemaker and the harper are different from [129e] the hands and eyes that they use for their work?Alcibiades
Apparently.Socrates
And man uses his whole body too?Alcibiades
To be sure.Socrates
And we said that the user and what he uses are different?Alcibiades
Yes.Socrates
So man is different from his own body?Alcibiades
It seems so.Socrates
Then whatever is man?Alcibiades
I cannot say.Socrates
Oh, but you can—that he is the user of the body.Alcibiades
Yes.
