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τούτων μὲν καὶ πεπειραμένοις κτἑ.: the point of this reply to the threatening language of the Melians lies in the proud assurance that such a double attack was nothing new for the Athenians. It is, therefore, certain that, as St. observes, πεπειραμένοις refers to the Athenians only. In the litotes (οὐκ ἀνεπιστήμοσιν, i.e. εὖ εἰδόσιν) the Athenians express with self-conscious irony the confident belief that “the fame of our campaigns has probably come to your ears.” The effect of τούτων τι is somewhat similar: “some of these things (with which you threaten us) would not come upon us without our having experienced the like before,” i.e. “nothing of all this is new to us.” On the pers. const. of πεπειραμένοις, see on ii. 3. 9. This const. occurs with γίγνεσθαι also in ii. 60. 1. See App. ἐνθυμούμεθα: in the freq. occurring sense of sympathetic interest (cf. c. 32. 5); here “we observe with regret.”—φήσαντες: see c. 87; 88. ἄνθρωποι: is used with reference to what is said in c. 105. 4 ff. about the θεῖον and the ἀνθρώπειον.— 6. νομίσειαν: see App.—ὑμῶν τὰ ἰσχυρότατα ἐλπιζόμενα μέλλεται: your strongest (grounds of confidence), being (mere) hopes, are held in abeyance. τὰ μὲν ἰσχυρότατα ὑμῶν ἐλπίδες εἰσὶ μέλλουσαι, Schol. The sense is expressed in a characteristic manner by the pass. μέλλεται (in Xen. An. iii. 1. 47 it is different, where μέλλεσθαι means be put cff). βραχέα: const. περιγίγνεσθαι with this. Cf. i. 50. 25, ὀλίγαι ἀμύνειν; ii. 61. 12, ταπεινὴ ἐγκαρτερεῖν.—πολλήν τε: a final conclusion: “and so you exhibit great want of sense.” μεταστησάμενοι: causing to withdraw. See on i. 79. 3, and compare with this trans. aor. partic. the corresponding intrans. μεταστάντων in 25. γνώσεσθε: come to a conclusion. Cf. c. 36. 10; i. 70. 7; ii. 61. 12; iii. 40. 18. οὐ γὰρ δὴ...τρέψεσθε : a similar expression is used in i. 122. 23, οὐ γὰρ δὴ πεφευγότες ταῦτα ἐπὶ τὴν πλείστους δὴ βλάψασαν καταφρόνησιν κεχωρήκατε. In both passages an urgent warning is expressed; but here the danger is in the future, and therefore may still be avoided, while in the other case the fault is regarded as already committed. πολλοῖς γάρ κτἑ.: this sent. contains, in chiastic order, an explanation of the two epithets in the preceding sent.: προορωμένοις ἔτι（ἔτι with προ-, while it is still time to avoid them) corresponds to προύπ τοις κινδύνοις and τὸ αἰσχρὸν καλούμενον to αἰσχροῖς. This explains the unusual αἰσχροῖς κινδύνοις (for which ἐσχάτοις, ἄκροις, ἰσχυροῖς have been proposed), i.e. “in dangers which threaten disgrace,” by which the loss of political independence is here meant. The Schol. renders: τὸ ἀπρεπὲς τοῦ ὀνόματος, and adds: τουτέστι τὸ ὑπακούειν ἔχον τι ποιητικὸν αἰσχύνης. Cf. Dem. XVIII. 178, μὴ δεῖσθαι Θηβαίων μηδέν: αἰσχρὸς γὰρ ὁ καιρός, “it would bring you disgrace.” ἀπα- γωγοῦ: seductive, misleading. Cf. c. 85. 2; vi. 8. 7. ἐπεσπάσατο: aor. as in c. 103. 3. The mid. of this verb is used in iii. 44. 15; it is therefore not necessary to write, with v. Herwerden, Stud. Thuc. p. 80, ἐπέσπασε τό. Even without the art., περιπεσεῖν (16) and προσλαβεῖν (17) contain the obj. of πολλοῖς ἐπεσπάσατο: “so-called baseness by the power of a seductive word brings upon many (the misfortune) to fall into real troubles,” etc. —ῥήματος ἔργῳ: the juxtaposition makes the opposition in meaning all the more noticeable. ἑκόντας: acc. as subj. of περιπεσεῖν in spite of the preceding dats. πολλοῖς, προορωμένοις, and ἡσσηθεῖσι.—αἰσχύνην αἰσχίω μετὰ ἀνοίας ἢ τύχης: a disgrace which is more disgraceful when incurred through folly than (it would be if incurred through) fortune. See App. προσλαβεῖν: “incur disgrace in addition to their misfortunes.” Cf. iii. 82. 50. πόλεως τῆς μεγίστης: the order is like that in ii. 61. 17; iv. 10. 7; 86. 2 and 8, with emphasis upon the adj. placed after the subst. and art. μέτρια προκαλουμένης: cf. c. 37. 23, τὰ εἰρημένα προκαλούμενοῖ. The substance of these proposals follows in the inf. γενέσθαι κτἑ. ὑποτελεῖς : sc. φόρου (cf. i. 19. 1; 80. 14). With the exception of the few αὐτόνομοι (cf. i. 97. 1) this was the regular condition of the Athenian ξύμμαχοι, in which respect they differed from those of the Lacedaemonians, acc. to i. 19. 1.— 21. καὶ...φιλονικῆσαι : const. with οὐκ ἀπρεπὲς νομιεῖτε. φιλονικῆσαι (on the spelling, see St. Quaest. Gram. p. 13) with the neut. obj. τὰ χείρω as in Plat. Prot. 360 e. καλῶς προσφέρονται: behave properly; a euphemism for submit. ἐνθυμεῖσθε: consider earnestly. Cf. 4. ἣν μιᾶς πέρι...ἔσται : the expianation of the Schol. πολλάκις πρὸ ὀφθαλμῶν λάβετε ὅτι περὶ πατρίδος ἡ σκέψις μιᾶς οὔσης, περὶ ἧς ἐν μιᾷ βου- λῇ ἢ κατορθώσετε ἢ σφαλήσεσθε undoubtedly gives the meaning intended; but the sent. is certainly corrupt, and the difficulties are not overcome by the various emendations proposed. See App. τυχοῦσάν τε καὶ κατορθώσασαν: the alternatives are expressed in the same way, as in ii. 35. 8, εὖ τε καὶ χεῖρον εἰπόντι.
Commentary on Thucydides Book 5. Harold North Fowler. 1888. Boston. Ginn and Company.
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