[
372a]
“I cannot conceive, Socrates,” he
said, “unless it be in some need that those very constituents have
of one another.” “Perhaps that is a good
suggestion,” said I; “we must examine it and not hold
back. First of all, then, let us consider what will be the manner of life of
men thus provided. Will they not make bread and wine and garments and shoes?
And they will build themselves houses and carry on their work in summer for
the most part unclad and unshod and in winter clothed and
[
372b]
shod sufficiently? And for their nourishment
they will provide meal from their barley and flour from their wheat, and
kneading and cooking these they will serve noble cakes and loaves on some
arrangement of reeds or clean leaves, and, reclined on rustic beds strewn
with bryony and myrtle, they will feast with their children, drinking of
their wine thereto, garlanded and singing hymns to the gods in pleasant
fellowship, not begetting offspring beyond their means
[
372c]
lest they fall into poverty or war?”
Here Glaucon broke in: “No relishes
1 apparently,” he
said, “for the men you describe as feasting.”
“True” said I; “I forgot that they will also
have relishes—salt, of course, and olives and cheese and onions
and greens, the sort of things they boil in the country, they will boil up
together. But for dessert we will serve them figs and chickpeas and beans,
[
372d]
and they will toast myrtle-berries
and acorns before the fire, washing them down with moderate potations and
so, living in peace and health, they will probably die in old age and hand
on a like life to their offspring.” And he said, “If you
were founding a city of pigs,
2
Socrates, what other fodder than this would you provide?”
“Why, what would you have, Glaucon?” said I.
“What is customary,” he replied; “They must
recline on couches, I presume, if they are not to be uncomfortable,
[
372e]
and dine from tables and have made
dishes and sweetmeats such as are now in use.”
“Good,” said I, “I understand. It is not
merely the origin of a city, it seems, that we are considering but the
origin of a luxurious city. Perhaps that isn't such a bad suggestion,
either. For by observation of such a city it may be we could discern the
origin of justice and injustice in states. The true state I believe to be
the one we have described—the healthy state, as it were. But if it
is your pleasure that we contemplate also a fevered state, there is nothing
to hinder.