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[608a]
will gladly have the best possible case made out for her
goodness and truth, but so long as she is unable to make good her defence we
shall chant over to ourselves1 as we listen the reasons that we have given as a
counter-charm to her spell, to preserve us from slipping back into the
childish loves of the multitude; for we have come to see that we must not
take such poetry seriously as a serious thing2 that lays hold on truth, but that he who
lends an ear to it must be on his guard
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fearing for the polity in his soul3 and must believe what we have said about
poetry.” “By all means,” he said, “I
concur.” “Yes, for great is the struggle,4” I said, “dear Glaucon, a far
greater contest than we think it, that determines whether a man prove good
or bad, so that not the lure of honor or wealth or any office, no, nor of
poetry either, should incite us5 to be careless
of righteousness and all excellence.” “I agree with
you,” he replied, “in view of what we have set forth,
and I think that anyone else would do so too.”
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“And
yet,” said I, “the greatest rewards of virtue and the
prizes proposed for her we have not set forth.” “You
must have in mind an inconceivable6 magnitude,” he replied, “if there are
other things greater than those of which we have spoken.7? For surely the whole time from the
boy to the old man would be small compared with all time.8” “Nay, it is nothing,” he said.
“What then? Do you think that an immortal thing9 ought to be seriously concerned for such a
little time,
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and not rather for all
time?” “I think so,” he said; “but
what is this that you have in mind?” “Have you never
perceived,” said I, “that our soul is immortal and never
perishes?” And he, looking me full in the face10 in amazement,11 said, “No, by
Zeus, not I; but are you able to declare this?” “I
certainly ought to be,12” said I, “and I think you too can, for it is
nothing hard.” “It is for me,” he said;
“and I would gladly hear from you this thing that is not
hard.13” “Listen,”
said I. “Just speak on,” he replied. “You
speak of14 good
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and evil, do you
not?” “I do.” “Is your notion of
them the same as mine?” “What is it?”
“That which destroys and corrupts in every case is the evil; that
which preserves and benefits is the good.” “Yes, I think
so,” he said. “How about this: Do you say that there is
for everything its special good and evil,
1 For ἐπᾴδοντες Cf. Phaedo 114 D, 77 E.
2 Cf. 602 B.
3 Cf. on 591 E, p. 412, note d.
4 Cf. Phaedo 114 C, 107 C, Phaedr. 247 B, Gorg. 526 E, Blaydes on Aristoph.Peace 276, and for the whole sentence Phaedo 83 B-C, 465 D, 618 B-C f. and p. 404, note d, on 589 E.
6 Cf. 404 C, 509 A, 548 B, 588 a, Apol. 41 C, Charm. 155 D.
7 Clement, Strom. iv. p. 496 Bὁθούνεκ᾽ ἀρετὴ τῶν ἐν ἀνθρώποις μόνη οὐκ ἐκ θυραίων τἀπίχειρα λαμβάνει, αὐτὴ δ᾽ ἑαυτὴν ἆθλα τῶν πόνων ἔχει.
8 Cf. on 496 A, p. 9, mote f and 498 D.
9 For the colorless use of πρᾶγμα see What Plato Said, p. 497, on Protag. 330 C-D. Cf. Shakes.Hamlet,I. iv. 67 “being a thing immortal as itself.”
10 ἐμβλέψας: Cf. Charmides 155 C.
11 Glaucon is surprised in spite of 498 D. Many uncertain inferences have been drawn from the fact that in spite of the Phaedo and Phaedrus(245 C ff.) interlocutors in Plato are always surprised at the idea of immortality. Cf. supra,Introd. p. lxiv.
12 For the idiomatic εἰ μὴ ἀδικῶ cf. 430 ECharm. 156 A, Menex. 236 B, 612 D.
13 Cf. Protag. 341 Aτὸ χαλεπὸν τοῦτο, which is a little different, Herod. vii. 11τὸ δεινὸν τὸ πείσομαι.
14 See Vol. I. p. 90, note a and What Plato Said, p. 567, on Cratyl. 385 B.
Plato. Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vols. 5 & 6 translated by Paul Shorey. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1969.
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