[389a]
by laughter we
must accept it, much less if gods.” “Much
indeed,” he replied. “Then we must not accept from Homer
such sayings as these either about the gods:“
Quenchless then was the laughter1 that
rose from the blessed immortals
When they beheld Hephaestus officiously puffing and panting.
”Hom. Il. 1.599-600—we must not
accept it on your view.” “If it pleases you
[389b]
to call it mine,2” he said; “at any
rate we must not accept it.” “But further we must surely
prize truth most highly. For if we were right in what we were just saying
and falsehood is in very deed useless to gods, but to men useful as a remedy
or form of medicine,3 it is
obvious that such a thing must be assigned to physicians and laymen should
have nothing to do with it.” “Obviously,” he
replied. “The rulers then of the city may, if anybody, fitly lie
on account of enemies or citizens for the benefit4 of
the state; no others may have anything to do with it,
[389c]
but for a layman to lie to rulers of that kind we shall
affirm to be as great a sin, nay a greater, than it is for a patient not to
tell physician or an athlete his trainer the truth about his bodily
condition, or for a man to deceive the pilot about the ship and the sailors
as to the real condition of himself or a fellow-sailor, and how they
fare.” “Most true,” he replied. “If
then
[389d]
the ruler catches anybody else in
the city lying, any of the craftsmen“
Whether a prophet or healer of sickness or joiner of
timbers,
”Hom. Od. 17.383-384he will chastise him for
introducing a practice as subversive5 and destructive of a
state as it is of a ship.” “He will,” he said,
“if deed follows upon word.6” “Again,
will our lads not need the virtue of self-control?” “Of
course.” “And for the multitude7 are not the main points of self-control
these—to be obedient to their rulers and themselves to be
rulers8
[389e]
over the bodily appetites and pleasures
of food, drink, and the rest?” “I think so.”
“Then, I take it, we will think well said such sayings as that of
Homer's Diomede:“
Friend, sit down and be silent and hark to the word of
my bidding,
”Hom. Il. 4.4129and what follows:“
Breathing high spirit the Greeks marched silently
fearing their captains,
”Hom. Il. 3.810
1 It is a commonplace that the primitive sense of humor of the Homeric gods laughs at the personal deformity of Hephaestus, but they really laugh at his officiousness and the contrast he presents to Hebe. Cf. my note in Class. Phil. xxii. (1927) pp. 222-223.
2 Cf. on 334 D.
3 Cf. 382 D.
4 Cf. 334 B, 459 D. A cynic might compare Cleon's plea in Aristophanes Knights 1226ἐγὼ δ᾽ ἔκλεπτον ἐπ᾽ ἀγαθῷ γε τῇ πόλει. Cf. Xenophon Memorabilia ii. 6. 37, Bolingbroke, Letters to Pope, p. 172.
5 The word is chosen to fit both the ship and the state. Cf. 422 E, 442 B; and Alcaeus apud Aristophanes Wasps 1235, Euripides Phoen. 888, Aeschines iii. 158, Epictetus iii. 7. 20.
6 That is, probably, if our Utopia is realized. Cf. 452 Aεἰ πράξεται ᾗ λέγεται. Cf. the imitation in Epistles 357 Aεἴπερ ἔργα ἐπὶ νο̂ͅ ἐγίγνετο.
7 For the mass of men, as distinguished from the higher philosophical virtue. Often misunderstood. For the meanings of σωγροσύνη cf. my review of Jowett's Plato, A.J.P. vol. xiii. (1892) p. 361. Cf. Unity of Plato's Thought, p. 15 and n. 77.
8 In Gorgias 491 D-E, Callicles does not understand what Socrates means by a similar expression.
9 Diomede to Sthenelos.
10 In our Homer this is Hom. Il. 3.8 and σιγῇ κτλ. 4.431. See Howes in Harvard Studies, vi. pp. 153-237.
Plato. Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vols. 5 & 6 translated by Paul Shorey. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1969.
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