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[343c] the sources of their own profit. And you are so far out1 concerning the just and justice and the unjust and injustice that you don't know that justice and the just are literally2 the other fellow's good3—the advantage of the stronger and the ruler, but a detriment that is all his own of the subject who obeys and serves; while injustice is the contrary and rules those who are simple in every sense of the word and just, and they being thus ruled do what is for his advantage who is the stronger and make him happy

1 This (quite possible) sense rather than the ironical, “so far advanced,” better accords with ἀγνοεῖς and with the direct brutality of Thrasymachus.

2 τῷ ὄντι like ὡς ἀληθῶς, ἀτεχνῶς, etc., marks the application (often ironical or emphatic) of an image or familiar proverbial or technical expression or etymology. Cf. 443 D, 442 A, 419 A, 432 A, Laches 187 B, Philebus 64 E. Similarly ἐτήτυμον of a proverb, Archil. fr. 35 (87). The origin of the usage appears in Aristophanes Birds 507τοῦτ᾽ ἄρ᾽ ἐκεῖν ἦν τοὔπος ἀληθῶς, etc. Cf. Anth. Pal. v. 6. 3. With εὐηθικῶν, however,ὡς ἀληθῶς does not verify the etymology but ironically emphasizes the contradiction between the etymology and the conventional meaning, “simple,” which Thrasymachus thinks truly fits those to whom Socrates would apply the full etymological meaning “of good character.” Cf. 348 C, 400 E, Laws 679 C, Thucydides iii. 83. Cf. in English the connexion of “silly” with “selig”, and in Italian, Leopardi's bitter comment on “dabbenaggine” (Pensieri xxvi.).

3 Justice not being primarily a self-regarding virtue, like prudence, is of course another's good. Cf. Aristotle Eth. Nic. 1130 a 3; 1134 b 5. Thrasymachus ironically accepts the formula, adding the cynical or pessimistic comment, “but one's own harm,” for which see 392 B, Euripides Heracleid. 1-5, and Isocrates' protest (viii. 32). Bion (Diogenes Laertius iv. 7. 48) wittily defined beauty as “the other fellow's good”; which recalls Woodrow Wilson's favourite limerick, and the definition of business as “l'argent des autres.”

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