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[499c] either of the sons of the men now in power and sovereignty or of themselves. To affirm that either or both of these things cannot possibly come to pass is, I say, quite unreasonable. Only in that case could we be justly ridiculed as uttering things as futile as day-dreams are.1 Is not that so?” “It is.” “If, then, the best philosophical natures have ever been constrained to take charge of the state in infinite time past,2 or now are in some barbaric region3

1 We might say, “talking like vain Utopians or idly idealists.” The scholiast says, p. 348, τοῦτο καὶ κενήν φασι μακαρίαν. cf. supra, Vol. I. on 458 A, and for εὐχαί on 450 D, and Novotny on Epist. vii. 331 D.

2 Cf. Laws 782 A, 678 A-B, and What Plato Said, p. 627 on Laws 676 A-B; Also Isoc.Panath. 204-205, seven hundred years seemed a short time.

3 Cf. Phaedo 78 A.

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